If Rose and I had our own server

ECM can only shake fired missiles if you hit ECM right before they actually fire, so you broke their lock but it hasn't registered for them yet and so they fire before it breaks on their screen.

ECM is to prevent them firing more than shaking fired missiles.

Also, you know how Rose loli-stomps jets in his helo by firing at just the right range? ECM is the ONLY way to prevent that, by popping ECM right before you enter that range, preventing lock or fire while in that danger zone.

Now, Flares. You need to wait a full half second at least after missiles have fired (tone change) before popping flares, AND the missiles need to be at least... oh... 10m away from you when this happens. This is what creates the range that Rose is exploiting. Additionally, if you fire flares after they fire a missile, and another missile is fired .5 seconds or more after you flare, that missile will hit you.

@ronin What i mean is, when a person begins to lock on and I use ECM, they continue locking on until the lockon is finished and then fire their missiles and hit me regardless of anything i do.

And when i person locks on and fires their missiles and I flare them away, they continue following me for sometimes a full 4 seconds or so and inevitably hit me, one after the other, and there is nothing i can possibly do about it.

So thats why i say i dont have countermeasures, dipshit. Its because i do not have countermeasures.

But what i thinks going on is the game just completely fails to alert me to lockons until way after the fact due to reasons.

I was running the heli with rose one day and i could never flare away the missiles from the gunner seat. Well finally he would just tell me "flare" or "do not flare" each time the subject came up.

So he would go "ok gut FLARE!!" and i would do it, but there would be no sign of a lockon at all, no beeping of any kind. Then a few seconds later, there would come the slow lockon beep where they are trying to get a lock, followed by the fast lockon beep where they have fired a missile, and it would not hit, because its not even happening, it actually happened earlier and i flared it off by being told to flare it.

So shut the fuck up.

FWIW, I can't fly, neither helos or jets, I'm as bad as someone who has literally never flown before. I get worse every time I get in a heli. But back to countermeasures:

Smoke is bullshit, I've been tankwhoring a LOT lately and half the time when I pop smoke the javelin or whatever still hits me. I can be covered in smoke, or just breaking the lock. It's probably something about the timing, maybe some of them are from helis and some are from javelins, but if I pop smoke right before they launch or during the launch, I'll still get hit WAY too often.

Also I have to hit L1 about 5 times sometimes before flares work when I'm gunning. Josh will say "flare!" and then I'll be there mashing the button forever until it finally shoots them. Tried with both my controllers since I thought it was just my one controller dying but it's not, it's part of the game I guess. Maybe that's what you're struggling with, Gut? Hitting ECM but the game doesn't register it so you just THINK you did it while you actually had to hit the button much more?

Also SOFLAMs are likely to be abolished in our server, sorry to the people who like them, but they're seriously glitched out. I've been locked on to by FRIENDLY SOFLAMs, and not just once where there's some possibility of error - dozens of times. Going out of its line of sight will remove the lock. Happens in friendly territory, probably when it sits idle too much it starts feeling self conscious and starts proving to itself that it's a good little SOFLAM, yes it is. Also they glitch so you're ALWAYS locked on even if you're out of its line of sight, or under the 25m limit, or across the map underground behind a mountain in a fortified anti-SOFLAM bunker. So the "lock" indication and that ANNOYING beeping is just monotone, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee until you abandon your tank/heli forever (or go kill the SOFLAM which takes at least 2 clips from a gun and is not physically destroyable by vehicles EVER)

RoninHo'in wrote:

ECM can only shake fired missiles if you hit ECM right before they actually fire, so you broke their lock but it hasn't registered for them yet and so they fire before it breaks on their screen.

ECM is to prevent them firing more than shaking fired missiles.

Also, you know how Rose loli-stomps jets in his helo by firing at just the right range? ECM is the ONLY way to prevent that, by popping ECM right before you enter that range, preventing lock or fire while in that danger zone.

Now, Flares. You need to wait a full half second at least after missiles have fired (tone change) before popping flares, AND the missiles need to be at least... oh... 10m away from you when this happens. This is what creates the range that Rose is exploiting. Additionally, if you fire flares after they fire a missile, and another missile is fired .5 seconds or more after you flare, that missile will hit you.

Not sure you know what Rose does, it has nothing to do with range other than lock on range, and it doesn't matter how far or close they are inside of that. I'm still not entirely sure he doesn't hack, so I don't think you should be trying to explain what he does when you've never seen it in action. There's more than just timing the game mechanics when he flies. He has some kind of sixth sense awareness of what is happening and where it is happening. If a rocket gets fired sometimes he tells me not to flare because he senses it was fired from somewhere it won't hit us if he hides behind a 3 feet wide pole. He seems to know if we're being locked on by jets, helis, tanks, soflam, or jerkoff with stinger just by how the beeping sound behaves, and that's not even breaking the surface of the god powers he gets in games like these so don't try to rationalize it.

Gut: I know your pain, he tells me to flare too, because otherwise he blames me when we get hit by rockets. I had the same problem you did, now it's a bit better because it actually seems to do anything. Before last patch, I'd flare (when he told me to) and it would go "bloop" to show me that I'd flared, and then we'd get hit by rockets and Josh would be like "I TOLD YOU TO FLARE" and I'd be like "I DID" and he'd be like "NO YOU DIDN'T WE GOT HIT IF YOU FLARED WHEN I TOLD YOU TO WE'D BE FINE RIGHT NOW AND NOT DEAD" and then I'd reply all smug-like "THEN WHY DIDN'T I HAVE FLARES ANYMORE IF THEY DIDN'T SHOOT" and he'd be like "BECAUSE WE DIED" and so on. That doesn't happen anymore because flaring works for me now.

I've had more experience with lock-on weapons in the air than anyone else here.

I can assure you, it's all about range. There is a range where if HS are fired you can't flare them because you NEED to wait a half second after confirmed missile in the air tone, AND they need to be at least so far from you when you pop to work. When I said he's "exploiting" it, I didn't mean he's hacking or even glitching, he's simply taking advantage of the flares weakspot. anyone with half a brain and enough air time to know about it (amazingly NOT that many people apparently... but there is that 'half a brain' prereq) uses it.

And yes, It's annoying as all fuck when a missile get's "diverted" by flare/ecm, and ends up reacquiring lock and hitting you after the flare/ecm expires. I've actually watches a missile circle/spiral around me 5-6 times while my ECM was in effect (I was in a helo, in a jet they just chase me) and as soon as it expired the missile hit me. RAAAAGE!

As for his awareness of what is locking on from where.... AFAIK there is no difference in lock on tones (though SOFLAMS become pretty obvious as they lock-on w/o ever firing until some jerkoff with a Jav get's a lock and fire's without any actual warning until it's airborne and thus too late for ECM)... he's simply really aware.

Does he run Air Radar? If so, that's likely how he knows. If it's a jet or helo locking on, you'll see them on radar. (unless they ECM before entering radar range... a nasty lil trick I use but usually only against jets since most helo's don't run air radar I've noticed, and I'll need ECM to prevent that damn heat seeker. Don't use HS either in a jet, just my canon, so the lockon point is invalid for me.)

Finally, the "Under Radar" doesn't affect SOFLAM/3rd seat locks. It ONLY affects Stingers & Heat Seekers. Laz + GM can still lock on and kill you while under radar. This is, for better or worse (read: worse), intentional design by DICE.

The counter measure system most assuredly DOES have some issues, but there are tricks of the trade to both maximize your own survivability and to minimize or even bypass enemy countermeasures.

I can't believe some n00blets out there are actually asking for a flare qty limit

RoninHo'in wrote:

I've had more experience with lock-on weapons in the air than anyone else here.

All bark and little bite. If we say flaring doesn't work for us, you automatically assume we just don't know what we're talking about. All the way going back to BC1 you've been very good at rationalizing out gameplay and giving solutions to hypothetical problems, but I've never heard of you actually backing them up with gameplay. According to your stats, you're mediocre with high playtime. I know stats don't mean shit, but come off it, Gut and I know what we're doing. I thought I sucked for a few months, that my reflexes were gone, the game wasn't enjoyable. Then it got patched and suddenly, instantly, I was going 50/5 (on foot, in tank, in heli, whichever, doesn't matter) against stacked teams without breaking a sweat, without altering my play style even remotely. So when something doesn't fucking work, I've stopped blaming myself - countermeasures are/were broken. They work for some people, they don't for others. The only time I hop in a heli anymore is to gun, and then ONLY for people I trust can fly. Jets are transport to me.

RoninHo'in wrote:

I can assure you, it's all about range. There is a range where if HS are fired you can't flare them because you NEED to wait a half second after confirmed missile in the air tone, AND they need to be at least so far from you when you pop to work. When I said he's "exploiting" it, I didn't mean he's hacking or even glitching, he's simply taking advantage of the flares weakspot. anyone with half a brain and enough air time to know about it (amazingly NOT that many people apparently... but there is that 'half a brain' prereq) uses it.

And yes, It's annoying as all fuck when a missile get's "diverted" by flare/ecm, and ends up reacquiring lock and hitting you after the flare/ecm expires. I've actually watches a missile circle/spiral around me 5-6 times while my ECM was in effect (I was in a helo, in a jet they just chase me) and as soon as it expired the missile hit me. RAAAAGE!

As for his awareness of what is locking on from where.... AFAIK there is no difference in lock on tones (though SOFLAMS become pretty obvious as they lock-on w/o ever firing until some jerkoff with a Jav get's a lock and fire's without any actual warning until it's airborne and thus too late for ECM)... he's simply really aware.

Does he run Air Radar? If so, that's likely how he knows. If it's a jet or helo locking on, you'll see them on radar. (unless they ECM before entering radar range... a nasty lil trick I use but usually only against jets since most helo's don't run air radar I've noticed, and I'll need ECM to prevent that damn heat seeker. Don't use HS either in a jet, just my canon, so the lockon point is invalid for me.)

Finally, the "Under Radar" doesn't affect SOFLAM/3rd seat locks. It ONLY affects Stingers & Heat Seekers. Laz + GM can still lock on and kill you while under radar. This is, for better or worse (read: worse), intentional design by DICE.

The counter measure system most assuredly DOES have some issues, but there are tricks of the trade to both maximize your own survivability and to minimize or even bypass enemy countermeasures.

I can't believe some n00blets out there are actually asking for a flare qty limit

Again, you're marginalizing his skill. He doesn't do air radar on his heli AFAIK - you know how he becomes aware of a heli or jet? If it pops up in front of him, shoots at us, or, 99% of the time, when I'm in 3rd person in the gunner seat looking around behind us shouting "there's a heli behind us" or "JET JET JET JET JET trying to hit us!"

You act like you have this formulaic understanding of the game but that's worth fuck-all when you're actually playing - if you were so good at tracking variables under combat stress (lol, super-serious for a video game)... basically, you'd be better at it. When you're getting locked on by 3 different things you don't pause and go "okay, now it's time to wait a half second to ECM." Everything goes by gut (and I mean instinct, not RAAGE gut).

Im gonna go get on my buddy's xbox just to shoot you down 2 or 3 times and leave.

Sure is tempting. Jet whores usually stop when you 120 them.

Fido wrote:

Sure is tempting. Jet whores usually stop when you 120 them.

I laughed my ass off when that happened (so far only once)

I made myself a prime target, but I didn't really expect him to pull it off anyways. (also thought he was preoccupied... my mistake)

And yah, I make mistakes... plenty of mistakes. It's reviewing my mistakes how I come up with all this nonsensical rationalizations of mine.

I don't pay close enough attention to my radar sometimes, or I ECM too early or late. However, 90% of the time, I know I fucked up before I even get hit. (still have my fingers crossed that it will work anyways, but that rarely pans out ) You're absolutely right that you can't sit there and logically asses every situation in the heat of the moment. It's all gut feelings. However proper knowledge can help refine your instincts.

My stats in part are so fucked up because, quite frankly, as good as I've gotten in a jet I still rarely insta kill enemy jets and instead whittle them down over 3-4 bursts and they have time to bail. Meanwhile I also fly erratic and dangerously and regularly clip light poles from trying to loop to tight to low. I'm also far from the best pilot out there. I regularly run into someone who's better, or, more regularly, a pair of pilots who can out fly me solo. I'm still better than the majority though.

I'll dominate an entire round in the air, finish top 3 on the team (without a single flag cap), & never get shot down, but I go 5/7 (most kills in a jet are from taking out helos) because of bailers and suicides. Can't fault suicide deaths obviously as it's my own damn fault but I should have been getting 15-20 kills easy. As a result, I really don't care much about K/D. It's also why the dog tag I sport is the "Vehicle Destroyer" tag sporting my vehicle destroys as it's really my best stat (top 5% destroy/kill ratio and top 5% total vehicle destroy on 360) primarily because of all my jet stick time.

I have similar motivations, jets are boring to me because people bail out or it becomes just an endless loop trying to get shots on the other guy. No fun, no action, just flying around dodging/getting a line on stuff. Not patient enough for that, I want action at all times. My dogtag is repairs because I feel like half my time in a game is spent repairing shit.

My only really low stat is the win/loss because I tend to switch teams to be on the losing team. Often enough to make an impact anyway, and I'd rather be playing against a teamstack than on a teamstack. Everyone else switches teams to be on the winning one so that stat has become meaningless to me.

If we enter the circle jerk loop I make 1-2 attempts to psyche them out using ECM... which works waaaay more than it really should, but when it doesn't I usually just break off and look for tanks to disable while dodging my bogie. Often I am also able to out-turn enemy pilots simply from knowing how to do tighter loops.

Usually, if the enemy team has a pilot good enough that we regularly stalemate, then it comes down to wingman to tilt the balance.... and it seems that the enemy team almost always has a better wingman >.<

When that happens, that's usually when I take it to the ground and cede the air

I'm mostly on the ground. Basically when I'm not gunning for Rose, I'm on the ground, depending on the map I'm either in a tank or on foot as engi/assault. The combo of Rose in a jet and me in a tank is almost as awesome as him in a heli and me gunning. He gives me free kills by bringing the jets in low over my tank (with them futilely trying to shoot him down). Then I 120 them. lol.

Fido wrote:

I'm mostly on the ground. Basically when I'm not gunning for Rose, I'm on the ground, depending on the map I'm either in a tank or on foot as engi/assault. The combo of Rose in a jet and me in a tank is almost as awesome as him in a heli and me gunning. He gives me free kills by bringing the jets in low over my tank (with them futilely trying to shoot him down). Then I 120 them. lol.

Yah... I've done that with some of our tankers. Surprised I haven't been led into more 120's like that actually. Usually they head to the fucking CRAM where their no-skill wingman who couldn't stay airborne 30 seconds is manning it like the uber chicken shits they are.

It's hillarious when you take out their jet in the circle jerk while under fire from the AA, but usually I just have to break off, let them get behind me while I lead them away, then get back behind them and kill them (well, disable) before they make it back to the AA.

That's my biggest failing as a pilot really.... not getting the quick kill and just getting disables. The pilots who are better than me regularly get the single burst kill but my aim is just barely off enough to take a couple bursts which gives them bail time

I'm good at evading and tailing, but lining up the kill shot is what I'm working on.

BacKdRafT wrote:

What clan u playin for dork?
@topic
i would play on your server when im back from spain. off to the beach now. later fellas

Quick n Combat

So far it's been total rape.

I-_DaRkBOYY_-I wrote:

BacKdRafT wrote:

What clan u playin for dork?
@topic
i would play on your server when im back from spain. off to the beach now. later fellas

Quick n Combat

So far it's been total rape.

First thing that comes to mind...

I put all this bullshit with timing etc (which in some part would explain some of the issues with ECM &/or flares) down to latency. If I locked onto Rose, he wouldn't begin to hear the initial tone until close to the time I would deploy my missiles. This makes it incredibly hard to guage when to dump flares/ECM.

Frankly, I've given up on dogfighting. I can fly around for hours & get a handful of kills typically without getting shot down by pilots (unless it's 2v1). However, my experience with ECM in choppers tells me that as soon as I start to hear any tone (unless the server's feeling totally smooth as fuck - I hardly ever get that), I need to deploy ECM immediately & get the fuck out of harm's way.

I too typically know what's locking onto me, but not by the sound, simply my awareness of what's around me.


@Darkboy, Fibre's not scheduled to be deployed in my street until Q2-Q3 2015, though there's no way I'll still be living there in another 2+ years. It's already been laid elsewhere in our city & various other areas in New Zealand, so that will be a prerequisite when we're looking for our next property. Most ISP's are offering 30/10Mbps plans, but line speed is currently opened to 100/50Mbps (hardware restricted at the exchanges)... would be nice to take advantage of the currently possible 16Tbps!!! Imagine DL'ing a 50GB movie in less than a second!

MadCunt wrote:

@Darkboy, Fibre's not scheduled to be deployed in my street until Q2-Q3 2015, though there's no way I'll still be living there in another 2+ years. It's already been laid elsewhere in our city & various other areas in New Zealand, so that will be a prerequisite when we're looking for our next property. Most ISP's are offering 30/10Mbps plans, but line speed is currently opened to 100/50Mbps (hardware restricted at the exchanges)... would be nice to take advantage of the currently possible 16Tbps!!! Imagine DL'ing a 50GB movie in less than a second!

Yeah fibre optic is great and I believe I have the lowest available in my area, but the ping is still instant even at huge distances. I get 5ms of ping going to the US.

fuck u gais >.<

I-_DaRkBOYY_-I wrote:

MadCunt wrote:

@Darkboy, Fibre's not scheduled to be deployed in my street until Q2-Q3 2015, though there's no way I'll still be living there in another 2+ years. It's already been laid elsewhere in our city & various other areas in New Zealand, so that will be a prerequisite when we're looking for our next property. Most ISP's are offering 30/10Mbps plans, but line speed is currently opened to 100/50Mbps (hardware restricted at the exchanges)... would be nice to take advantage of the currently possible 16Tbps!!! Imagine DL'ing a 50GB movie in less than a second!

Yeah fibre optic is great and I believe I have the lowest available in my area, but the ping is still instant even at huge distances. I get 5ms of ping going to the US.

Do you play CoD at all? Guaranteed host, every time... Not just average host, but holy fucking rape god mode host.

Fido wrote:

I-_DaRkBOYY_-I wrote:

Yeah fibre optic is great and I believe I have the lowest available in my area, but the ping is still instant even at huge distances. I get 5ms of ping going to the US.

Do you play CoD at all? Guaranteed host, every time... Not just average host, but holy fucking rape god mode host.

I played CoD for two weeks after Black Ops came out then gave it away. That was before I got Bell FibreOp.