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Fido
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PostSubject: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:33 pm

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/04/news/economy/shutdown_faq/index.htm?iid=EL

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2011/04/20114691913154141.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/us/politics/06budget.html?_r=1&ref=us

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/us/politics/06shutdown.html?ref=politics

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/us/06states.html?ref=politics

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/06/budget-deal-elusive-congressional-leaders-face-pressure/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12988930


Could be interesting. US going the way of Belgium? No government, not much hope of the two extremely polarized sides reconciling into an efficient government? This is where the party system and the "politics" of both sides go wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932011_Belgian_government_formation
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:33 pm

Obama's speaking Live about it now.

Streams available from CNN & Fox.

http://interactive.foxnews.com/livestream/live.html?chanId=5
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:57 pm

My bad, Obama is speaking about green energy. State dept. is actually doing the budget crap right now.

Still. Nice seeing Obama talk. That dude is gonna get re-elected. He could be the most crooked mofo on earth but it's actually enjoyable to hear the man talk and I wouldn't wanna be one of the people running against him.

Some of what he's saying is pure spin, some of it is hard truth, but most of it is logical and he's starting to mention some statistics and things he actually accomplished (most people believe he did zip in his term) so I don't think he'll have too much trouble winning the re-election.
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:02 pm

Government shutdown? Of what? And please explain this Belgium thing cause I didn't understand the wiki article. :/

And yeah, he's gonna get re-elected. But I cant believe he's planning on spending $1b on his fking campaign.

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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:26 pm

Belgium's glorious side, the Flemish noble Dutch-speaking part of hardworking intelligent stock, is being unjustly repressed by the vile, nasty, slimy, intolerant and ignorant French-speaking Wallonians who wish only to squander the hard-earned yet plentiful profits of the Flemish part whilst contributing approximately zero percent of the effort required to reap the aforementioned profits. Flanders - or rather, some politicians in Flanders - wants to sort of split off in some way, mostly political, from Wallonia the leeches, but Wallonia, needing its lifeblood from Flanders, does not want such a split. Many options are on the table, including splitting Belgium up into 2 countries, or into 2 parts that will merge into the Netherlands (Flanders) and France (Wallonia), or just rewriting the constitution in such a way that grants Flanders a bit more independence without having to support Wallonia the lechers. A final option is to do nothing and stop caring and keep living and remain inefficient.

Unfortunately the government, split approximately 50-50 between both sides, cannot reach an agreement. They're arguing primarily over the main city - Brussels, the symbolic head of the EU and big business center. It's technically a Flemish (Dutch-speaking) city but over the years it's become more populated with Wallonians (French-speakers) which raises the big issue: in case of a split, which goddamn side gets the city, because both feel they have rights to it - Flanders historically and geographically, Wallonia through population because they move to where the getting is good.

The government - as mentioned, split 50-50 - requires a 2/3rds majority according to the constitution to agree on anything. Needless to say when the country is split, by nature of the two different types of people living. It's like North vs. South in the US back in the Civil War, only totally different with 3 official languages (Dutch, French, German), 2 major ethnic groups (technically the same ethnicity but historically vastly different, the French-speakers were always the aristocracy and the Dutch-speakers were always the farmers and the laborers, which has since industrialization reversed the wealth spread. Through all this the king - a symbolic figurehead with some minor powers to appoint some government people - is basically going "WTF R U NOOBS DOIN TO MY COUNTRY OMFG AND NO THAT ARTIST IS NOT MY BASTARD DAUGHTER."

TL;DR: One big bureaucratic nightmare. Political parties are split 50-50, needs 2/3 to make any changes, which cannot happen. Government can't agree on anything, and can't form. Belgium, in February, officially passed Iraq as the longest a country has gone without formal government. It's political trench warfare with no end in sight and if it wasn't such a civilized country people would be shooting each other already. Instead they choose to bitch.
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:47 pm

I read all of that.

Haha, wow. Political parties, fking useless. Mind if I ask how a country can even run without a functional government?

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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:29 pm

Well most people realize that the essentials have to continue to run - Defense, Postal Services, Police, various internal agencies that literally keep the country going - major financial institutions, the legal system, whatever. Those are considered essential and won't be shut down, though they may be stripped to their bare essentials.

The IRS would temporarily stop filing paper tax returns is one good example, but it's not like you can get away with fraud or anything.

Don't honestly know if construction is actually fed-run or if it's contracted, but if it's not contracted, that means construction when done by the government (hell, maybe even for the government) would halt until the government picked back up.

Basically what all this is is they can't agree on a budget. But they have to agree, so if they don't decide what money goes where, they basically shut off the tap completely and no money goes anywhere until they can agree. This is not a good thing for anyone or anything. The economy takes a hit, people working for the government stop getting paid. People lose faith in the government's ability to, well, govern.

Wouldn't mean Obama would stop being president or anything. It's not gonna collapse the country or get even close, it just means they can't agree and they're reaching a deadline. It's like not agreeing with a spouse on how to pay the bills and which bills are most important so you both guard the money until you agree. But by the time you agreed they've shut off the electric.
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:32 pm

Also worth mentioning that it's the GOP vetoing this shit, and it's not actually Obama's fault. At all. The shutdown is being orchestrated by Republicans and Tea Partiers consider it a good thing.

If you think that's biased BS, it's not - they're proud of it and nobody's hiding the facts. Now anyway. They know to the average person that it will just look like Obama failed to keep the country going.
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:16 pm

Yeah, I dont think thats gonna happen with the US though. If it does, well we're screwed.

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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:20 pm

Guys who cares if our government is shutting down, we need to resolve this situation in Libya RIGHT NAO.
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:21 pm

Obama called his nemeses to the White House apparently at 8:45 PM so they'll probably figure it out and keep the country from shutting down.
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:22 pm

Xycolian wrote:
Guys who cares if our government is shutting down, we need to resolve this situation in Libya RIGHT NAO.

The US has very little to do with that though. People are getting all panicky about nothing. It's not as big a deal to the US as people think, we basically supported some UN military action. It's not like it was the US' decision.
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:28 pm

Xycolian wrote:
Guys who cares if our government is shutting down, we need to resolve this situation in Libya RIGHT NAO.
This.

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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:32 pm

Think he was being sarcastic.
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:40 pm

Fido wrote:
Think he was being sarcastic.
I could post the ORLY pic right here but nah.

I could tell Fido.

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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:44 pm

You're not good at distinguishing fact from fiction (ghosts, aliens built the pyramids) so I just thought I'd make sure.
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:04 pm

Fido wrote:
You're not good at distinguishing fact from fiction (ghosts, aliens built the pyramids) so I just thought I'd make sure.
I believe in ghosts, not the way most people do but I believe that we have spirits and those spirits can continue to linger after death, most likely as some sort of Purgatory before continuing into Heaven/Hell. Why not?

And the aliens thing, meh. Just kind of doubt they truly had the manpower back then to do that but aliens aren't the answer, I've given up on that. That thing where you use wooden structures to "roll" large objects seems likely.

The fact though is that there ARE things that we can't explain, if not the pyramids then something else.

Gotta admit though, those topics were win.

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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:05 pm

Well I don't believe in ghosts nor a heaven or hell. Why not?

That thing where you use wooden structures to "roll" large objects is called physics. I linked you to the dude who built stonehenge in his back yard using no modern equipment. So I think we've proven that was possible.

& just because we can't explain something doesn't mean it was necessarily a supernatural force. Supernatural meaning bullshit of course, because once something is proven to exist it becomes natural.
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:08 pm

Fido wrote:
Well I don't believe in ghosts nor a heaven or hell. Why not?
Ok.
Fido wrote:
That thing where you use wooden structures to "roll" large objects is called physics. I linked you to the dude who built stonehenge in his back yard using no modern equipment. So I think we've proven that was possible.
That's what I was referring to, and yes I know it's called physics.
Fido wrote:
& just because we can't explain something doesn't mean it was necessarily a supernatural force. Supernatural meaning bullshit of course, because once something is proven to exist it becomes natural.
I know.

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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:10 pm

k.
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:11 pm

I was being sarcastic lol.

fudge yeah I de-railed this shit and I didn't even mean too.
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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:13 pm

Fido wrote:
k.
K

Oh, and in some ways you could say stuff like ghosts have been proven. Plenty of convincing evidence out there, but of course the scientific community will never recognize any of it. So it will remain supernatural, and that's probably for the best.

And yeah Xy, so was I but I guess Fido couldn't tell, lmao.

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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:16 pm

Was the part where I reminded you that he was being sarcastic in some way an indicator that I didn't know he was being sarcastic?

Chillax alien boy.

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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:17 pm

Fido wrote:
Was the part where I reminded you that he was being sarcastic in some way an indicator that I didn't know he was being sarcastic?

Chillax alien boy.

I was talking about you not realizing I was being sarcastic. Then again I am out of touch with reality.

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PostSubject: Re: US Government Shutdown   Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:03 pm

You make a good point that I have made; you are out of touch with reality and are incapable of winning an argument no matter how accurate your remarks might be.
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